Oh yes the male/female difference - fascinating. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. I imagine that's a lot around the 'conversations to self'. I know that Ian doesn't think that way, he doesn't hold an internal monologue either (although I know many women that don't either!!). Maybe there's an insecurity from the female perspective of not being the emotional 'holder'? There are so many threads to this x
I tend to think that we only ever know a fraction of what goes on in another's internal world, even our nearest and dearest (even ourselves!) But I think this is part of what maintains the mystery, and therefore the curiosity in a relationship. The moment we think we really 'know' someone inside out, we can become complacent and lose the spark of desire that draws us to know more..... just another perspective, but for me it's healthy for my partner to have an inner life that I don't fully know....
I agree in that I don't think it's possible to completely 'know' another - or like you say, even ourselves. Sometimes that in itself can feel lonely as no one can ever really understand us, but yes it also lends itself to mystery and continuing and developing interest. I love this perspective. I'm really interested in my desire to know, what drives it - are we all innately curious beings? Why does being 'left out' bring up feelings for me even when I know the rationale is sound and justified? Questions to self! xx
I really loved this Emma. Both my brothers were in the military. One was special forces and came to visit me in Australia when I was at uni in 2003, he had leave from a tour of Afghan post September 11th. Him and his pal from his corp who came with him, spent a lot of time talking huddled up drinking hard liquor and talking about their experience. One night when we had all had way too much to drink, they shared with some of what they had been through. I’ve never forgotten that after all these years and what they told me. I can’t unsee it from my mind. When I worked in Brazil in a favela in 2016, I ended up being escorted out of an area by a cartel/gang incident when finishing at the school ; plus working every day in a place with weapons, a shoot out on the street, crime etc, extreme poverty, my brothers were the only two I could talk about what I had seen and done the whole time I was there. It was easier for them not to be shocked about my experiences and they “got it”. I also didn’t want others to worry about me, or for me to upset them with my experiences. This resonated massively 🙏 xx
Wow thanks for sharing this Ruth, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about and you have experienced so much of this. I am glad I didn't have the drunken conversation, that I don't hold the images...and I think it's critical that when you are exposed to trauma that you have people close that you can go to and speak freely about it. People who will understand. It's just sometimes hard not being able to be that person for those that you love x
Important piece Emma. I’ve never pushed Dave on what he experienced whilst at war. I did hear bits and pieces from a friend’s husband and it was enough. In the aftermath of loosing a friend to suicide who was ex military, you know I wonder how much talking might have helped. How much was in there burried or trying to be buried…
As space holders we can handle it of course but the sadness never leaves, not really (us or them). I don’t know the answer but often I find nature does. ✨
Yes it's such a tricky one, and I don't think there is a right answer. It's very individual but the tendency for men to shut themselves away from the emotion worries me too. Like I say in the piece, I even question my own motivation. It's brought up a lot of interesting thoughts, and good discussions at home. And nature yes, always x
Very interesting piece Emma. I have lots of little notes which I’m always promising to make into one piece regarding my dad’s role during ww2 He never spoke about his war experience and that was a very definite decision he made We know that something significant happened while he was posted out in the far east but frustratingly meet dead ends after little snippets of information are leaked in answer to our enquiries. A big door with Official Secrets plastered all over it is regularly the hello / goodbye experience. One day maybe……. Having said that I worry that we should perhaps let sleeping dogs lie I have some reflections written on the subject and maybe one day will air. One thing I know , my mother knew as little as her children This brings me into the next part of your writing. Should husbands and wives share with each other every thought and experience? If I had a pound for every discussion I’ve had on this subject, I would be a very wealthy person and my final opinion on this is that no we should not share everything. I think this idea of sharing all probably originated from the biblical idea of marriage where ‘ two become one’ and I think a lot of misunderstandings have come from that and what it really means. On reflection I believe two individuals join in marriage and the oneness pertains to the marriage state itself If someone is withholding information that is damaging to the marriage and the partner then this is clearly wrong. However conversely not every bit of information is nurturing to the marriage itself and married people have a responsibility to safeguard and do that. Two individual with their own unique personalities contribute to the marriage but it’s the individuality of each person that keeps the excitement and healthy tension and awe and respect for privacy that makes for a healthy marriage. We don’t own our partners souls I think it’s important to separate in our minds the difference between the individuals and the marriage state itself and recognise the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. Is there anything more bland than two people becoming mirror images of one another? Instead bring your individuality to the marriage and nurture that which you’ve promised each other. It’s good that each partner has someone else to trust with confidentiality in order to look after their own mental health without damaging their partners. And also there are times that will be communicated . What’s to be shared is anything that will help the other and bring good to the marriage state itself but allow for private space. There’s a huge difference between privacy and secrecy The former should be encouraged and the latter rejected . All just my opinion of course A very engaging piece that many will resonate with Em Great writing as usual
Margaret you make a brilliant point that 'not every bit of information is nurturing to the marriage itself and married people have a responsibility to safeguard'. Absolutely, and I think this is where Ian's perspective originates from. I also don't think it's ever possible to completely know someone, and I like the idea of the marriage as an entity, distinct from the notion that the two individuals have become so entwined as to become 'one'. It's such an interesting subject with so many layers and subtleties. Thank you for your excellent and engaging response as always my friend xx
My parents never spoke of their pasts mostly due to early trauma including (but not only) WW2. All our relatives lived in England when I was a kid - born and growing up in Australia. I felt like a rootless tree, transplanted into somewhere with no links. Thank goodness for cousins and the internet (most of which hooked me into my family after I was about 45yrs old! My Dad just never spoke of it, had loads of anger inside. My Mum made up fantasies, and as a kid I thought they were real. It’s a horrible bubble-burst when your childhood myths are broken. Didnt make for a lot of trust.
My ex (my kids father) simply gaslit and lied, again full of his secrets (mostly women) but as I was a trusting soul, I didnt work this out for 20 odd years!
My current partner is a simple soul. A lovely person, but his secrets are (I think) around his self-loathing. I mean who is going to admit that, eapecially when he doesnt even admit it to himself? He just goes internal. TBH I think he may be undiagnosed autistic - very intelligent and caring but I have realised a lot of his behaviour is copying and masking (as I explore my own ND traits, which are more ADHD).
Sigh.
I hate secrets.
And as a result (and due to ADHD traits) I am a “No shit Sherlock” sort of person. Learning to keep my trap shut a bit more but it’s hard!
There is no doubt that secrets can be destructive - both on those in the sphere of the secret holder, or ourselves if we are the ones that hold them. There are just so many layers to this. Malicious secrets, secrets of guilt, secrets of shame, secrets that guard our vulnerabilities. Things we just want to box up and put away. Different generations also have VERY different outlooks on what should and shouldn't be shared. I'm also exploring my ADHD traits at the moment whereas my husband presents very differently to the world. We are complex beings indeed. Thank you for your thoughtful response x
And secrets for things that are just too big and too hard.
One of my Dad’s lovely sisters once said to me (when I stayed with her in UK for a little while and asked about family history). “It’s like a book - some chapters you just never open or read again. You seal them shut.”
Yes…that is a whole other discussion in itself, and one I see played out within older generations of my own family. It sometimes makes me sad (for them) but who is to say what is the right way of dealing with painful memories? 💔
I read “On Chapel Sands” recently and the secrets held by a whole community hidden in plain sight led to a lot of mistrust - and relatives in Australia helped solve some of the mysteries
My parents and my two oldest siblings became homeless when their house took a direct hit during the Clydebank Blitz in 1941. My Dad was serving as a fireman while my mum and siblings were in a shelter. Dad didn’t know where they were for three days, or if they had survived. My mother hardly spoke of it, my father not at all. His eyes would fill with tears if you asked. Having researched the history of those two awful nights, I can understand why.
I wonder now if they spoke to each other?
When she was dying 60 years later, my mum shared with me her worst experience of the Blitz. She said she’d never told anyone that story. I felt oddly privileged. Maybe it was a sense of being trusted at last?
Perhaps that is it - the sense of being trusted. I do know my husband trusts me, but I also think there's possibly something embedded deep in the subconscious psyche that if he withholds things, then maybe he doesn't trust me? Wow, your parents' story. So much emotion, so much unspoken, and then to tell you at the end ❤️
Interesting piece, Emma. Secrets are such a many threaded topic.
I’ve been divorced for sometime. But during my marriage, my husband was an attorney in the same small town where I was a reporter, the courtroom where he argued being one of my beats. We only had a few opportunities to experiment with how it would feel not to be able to share as openly as we were used to before the fact we were heading in very different directions became so loud it was clear we needed to part ways officially.
This was the bigger secret we kept from ourselves and each other for longer than we ought to have—that we were moving in those opposite directions that called us and that our marriage wasn’t going to work.
Thank you Holly for sharing this. It's so interesting - the secrets we don't even admit to ourselves. The ones we suppress while we're busy managing the external. What a fascinating blend of jobs for you to hold as a couple in a small town - and I'm sure many delicate conflicts of interest to manage. Wow x
Emma, this was a valuable exploration. In my marriage, we both have jobs where we maintain confidentiality, and since the start of the pandemic we both work from home. I built a backyard cabin so I could have a private, detached space to work with my clients. My husband has always understood. He was in special forces earlier in life, and he used to be reluctant to even go under anesthesia for a surgery. He will always have experiences in his background he never shares with me. I worked in counseling, so naturally I never share anything involving client confidentiality.
But I had to smile when we has only been married a short time, and he asked me after he got home from the hospital, “Do you ever have temptations?” We had a really great conversation. I asked him if he did. He said no, but then explained a few single women didn’t seem to care that he was married now. So I drove to his work to have lunch with him now and then. We trust each other completely, and we tell each other if there’s someone acting a bit interested.
We had a cute situation arise last winter. I was using some kind of assistive device (I have MS). I had asked the hardware store clerk for help finding something. Then I went to the aisle where my husband was shopping. The clerk, a friendly, nice looking fellow found me and started to ask me out. He then glanced up and saw my husband.
Oh. Are you two together?
My husband took this in stride, and the man said something complementary and looked a bit embarrassed and left.
But we laughed later and celebrated the fact someone felt interested. (You’ve still got it!) My husband and I are both committed but we think maintaining open communication is a safeguard.
I used to do trainings on vicarious trauma and resilience. It’s important to recognize the signs of compassion fatigue and do self care to counteract this. Thanks for bringing up this key area in marriage.
I appreciate the things my husband and I still share and connect on. For him, music and art provide balance and feed his soul. He respects my need to write and my love for photography and art.
Oh how interesting, and what great perspective you both come from. 'Vicarious trauma' - that and 'compassion fatigue' really stand out for me. Both things I can relate to from his perspective and mine. It's such a multi-layered discussion. Like you, we have a high level of trust in our marriage with respect to the usual kind of 'secrets' and each of us would also be flattered by attention and share that with the other! My husband also turns to music - both listening to it and playing the guitar. I, like you, turn to writing... Thank you so much for this insightful and fascinating response x
I enjoyed reading your response, Emma. Sometimes I think men or women who have unique wiring see the world in a different way than average. These people may be able to do work that others would find too difficult. And their way of processing or viewing emotions and relationships may be fairly unusual, too. I think that factors in at times. But it doesn’t mean they wouldn’t struggle with vicarious trauma.
Oh wow I think I’d be like you, desperate to have him share but also not entirely sure why, is it to support or something else. It’s great that he has people to share with though. I am also curious (nosey) & my husband isn’t so he naturally doesn’t tell me stuff
That's exactly it. I am also very curious (nosey) and equally my husband isn't. He doesn't really get the whole gossip thing - I love a good gossip 🤣. On the serious side though, I am glad he has people to talk to, but I think an awful lot is still held within which is a slight concern. I will hold that in different ways, keeping an eye if I think something has had a significant impact, nudging him to seek support. Encouraging him to tell others and accepting it won't be me hearing it...
This post has been popping into my head quite regularly since reading it a few days ago. It's been interesting reflecting on the differences between me and my husband that I already knew about, I like to talk, he doesn't. But it's also prompted me to think a bit more deeply about whether I share as much as I think I do, and the answer is that I don't. I have what feels like a constant script running in my head so sometimes I think I've shared something, but I haven't. I've thought about it internally, and written about it but have I shared it with my husband, probably not. It also reminded me of the family secrets my mother in law divulged after a couple of gin and tonics one night about half siblings and what sounded like a whole new part of the family in Canada as well as stuff from her childhood that even her husband of 50+ years was surprised to hear. Great post, really thought provoking on lots of levels.
Thanks so much - and YES to the constant internal script. My husband says I often haven't told him things which I think I have. I've clearly just had that conversation in my head.. so he is left in a space of 'not knowing' although not because I've kept a secret?! We too are so different. I'm a talker, he's more of a slow burn. I love that G&T conversation - a similar one did happen in my family after my brother died but I gotta say, I learned some things I really didn't want to know... x
In my work with couples I make a distinction between privacy and secrecy. Couples need to come to some understanding and agreements around what they need shared for trust and commitment to flourish. And couples need to share enough of their inner worlds with each other to be known and feel known. Secrecy is often intentional hiding of information to avoid conflict, and privacy is choosing what to share - and that changes over time. Secrets can be toxic to trust - privacy is respecting the trust and nourishing its growth.
Thank you, this is a really helpful distinction. I can certainly reframe my own situation in the sense of respecting my husband’s privacy and what he chooses to share 🫶
I’d be the same as you wanting to know, but unlike you, wouldn’t handle the knowing.
This is such an interesting topic!
I know a secret I hold with my husband is my previous sexual partners, he knows perhaps a little, but I also haven’t asked much about his.
I sometimes find his poor description of events he’s attended or his work day or just general life frustrating as I want to know every detail so I can imagine being there. But that just makes me look crazy 🤪 It’s more a joy of knowing his life than stalker… I promise (I note it to discuss with my therapist in our next session, just to be sure 🤣). But then sometimes he can be spilling the tea on work drama and being outside of the workplace can’t see the goss and he gets frustrated 😆
Aah the old 'sexual partners' chestnut. We were literally having that conversation with our teenage children the other day!! Not telling them anything about us but about how it can be such a contentious question between new couples! I love how you want to know every detail - I kind of glaze over at the detail and want the highlights, but I want ALL the highlights. I think we are wired for wanting the gossip....I know I am! xx
I want all the tea ☕️ the gossip and the liquid kind 😆
It’s so interesting and the thing really is there is no right or wrong. I would love to know more from your husbands perspective. I lean towards oversharing and verbal diarrhoea (is that how you spell that? My autocorrect says it is but I have doubts), so this keeping trauma stories in interesting. 🧐
Absolutely there is no right or wrong (and your spelling looks good to me!!). It's made me think that I'll ask him for more of his view on this, and maybe write a follow up...
So now I’ve read the responses mine seems so silly 🙈 Workplace drama versus war trauma or the trauma of your husband’s job.
We thankfully don’t have that level of soul hurting experiences to be sharing.
I wonder, where should the consent be? With the sharer or the hearer? It’s good there are boundaries that he’s not trauma dumping on you, there is so much love in protecting you from the horrors. But you’re trained in it and have said you want to know, which then makes it a thing.
But then equally from the traumatised person’s perspective, perhaps they don’t want to relive it and by sharing it could bring that horror home? That they may look at you and see the sadness?
I’d love to know more, I’d love to hear from more people who are the secret holder and their reasonings behind it… 💚
Not silly at all - I found your comment super interesting. And secrets are certainly not reserved for the 'trauma' issues. Often it's the small secrets that can cause the biggest damage - you can feel just as 'left out' whether the subject matter is the day to day or a really significant single event. You raise some great questions - where should the consent be - I think that's what I struggle with a bit. 'I'll tell you when it's too much - let me make that choice'. Your penultimate point is one that will definitely stay with me - perhaps they don't want to relive it or see other's sadness. Very wise words. And as for the secret holders...will we ever know?? xx
Brilliant Emma. As a counsellor, I get this but also there is a male/female difference here, I think. Really thought provoking. Thanks
Oh yes the male/female difference - fascinating. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. I imagine that's a lot around the 'conversations to self'. I know that Ian doesn't think that way, he doesn't hold an internal monologue either (although I know many women that don't either!!). Maybe there's an insecurity from the female perspective of not being the emotional 'holder'? There are so many threads to this x
I tend to think that we only ever know a fraction of what goes on in another's internal world, even our nearest and dearest (even ourselves!) But I think this is part of what maintains the mystery, and therefore the curiosity in a relationship. The moment we think we really 'know' someone inside out, we can become complacent and lose the spark of desire that draws us to know more..... just another perspective, but for me it's healthy for my partner to have an inner life that I don't fully know....
I agree in that I don't think it's possible to completely 'know' another - or like you say, even ourselves. Sometimes that in itself can feel lonely as no one can ever really understand us, but yes it also lends itself to mystery and continuing and developing interest. I love this perspective. I'm really interested in my desire to know, what drives it - are we all innately curious beings? Why does being 'left out' bring up feelings for me even when I know the rationale is sound and justified? Questions to self! xx
Yes! I totally relate to that feeling of loneliness that noone ever really understands us. I bump up against that often. Fascinating subject Emma.
I’m sure you do, both personally and professionally. The human brain really is extraordinary…
I really loved this Emma. Both my brothers were in the military. One was special forces and came to visit me in Australia when I was at uni in 2003, he had leave from a tour of Afghan post September 11th. Him and his pal from his corp who came with him, spent a lot of time talking huddled up drinking hard liquor and talking about their experience. One night when we had all had way too much to drink, they shared with some of what they had been through. I’ve never forgotten that after all these years and what they told me. I can’t unsee it from my mind. When I worked in Brazil in a favela in 2016, I ended up being escorted out of an area by a cartel/gang incident when finishing at the school ; plus working every day in a place with weapons, a shoot out on the street, crime etc, extreme poverty, my brothers were the only two I could talk about what I had seen and done the whole time I was there. It was easier for them not to be shocked about my experiences and they “got it”. I also didn’t want others to worry about me, or for me to upset them with my experiences. This resonated massively 🙏 xx
Wow thanks for sharing this Ruth, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about and you have experienced so much of this. I am glad I didn't have the drunken conversation, that I don't hold the images...and I think it's critical that when you are exposed to trauma that you have people close that you can go to and speak freely about it. People who will understand. It's just sometimes hard not being able to be that person for those that you love x
Important piece Emma. I’ve never pushed Dave on what he experienced whilst at war. I did hear bits and pieces from a friend’s husband and it was enough. In the aftermath of loosing a friend to suicide who was ex military, you know I wonder how much talking might have helped. How much was in there burried or trying to be buried…
As space holders we can handle it of course but the sadness never leaves, not really (us or them). I don’t know the answer but often I find nature does. ✨
Yes it's such a tricky one, and I don't think there is a right answer. It's very individual but the tendency for men to shut themselves away from the emotion worries me too. Like I say in the piece, I even question my own motivation. It's brought up a lot of interesting thoughts, and good discussions at home. And nature yes, always x
Very interesting piece Emma. I have lots of little notes which I’m always promising to make into one piece regarding my dad’s role during ww2 He never spoke about his war experience and that was a very definite decision he made We know that something significant happened while he was posted out in the far east but frustratingly meet dead ends after little snippets of information are leaked in answer to our enquiries. A big door with Official Secrets plastered all over it is regularly the hello / goodbye experience. One day maybe……. Having said that I worry that we should perhaps let sleeping dogs lie I have some reflections written on the subject and maybe one day will air. One thing I know , my mother knew as little as her children This brings me into the next part of your writing. Should husbands and wives share with each other every thought and experience? If I had a pound for every discussion I’ve had on this subject, I would be a very wealthy person and my final opinion on this is that no we should not share everything. I think this idea of sharing all probably originated from the biblical idea of marriage where ‘ two become one’ and I think a lot of misunderstandings have come from that and what it really means. On reflection I believe two individuals join in marriage and the oneness pertains to the marriage state itself If someone is withholding information that is damaging to the marriage and the partner then this is clearly wrong. However conversely not every bit of information is nurturing to the marriage itself and married people have a responsibility to safeguard and do that. Two individual with their own unique personalities contribute to the marriage but it’s the individuality of each person that keeps the excitement and healthy tension and awe and respect for privacy that makes for a healthy marriage. We don’t own our partners souls I think it’s important to separate in our minds the difference between the individuals and the marriage state itself and recognise the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. Is there anything more bland than two people becoming mirror images of one another? Instead bring your individuality to the marriage and nurture that which you’ve promised each other. It’s good that each partner has someone else to trust with confidentiality in order to look after their own mental health without damaging their partners. And also there are times that will be communicated . What’s to be shared is anything that will help the other and bring good to the marriage state itself but allow for private space. There’s a huge difference between privacy and secrecy The former should be encouraged and the latter rejected . All just my opinion of course A very engaging piece that many will resonate with Em Great writing as usual
Margaret you make a brilliant point that 'not every bit of information is nurturing to the marriage itself and married people have a responsibility to safeguard'. Absolutely, and I think this is where Ian's perspective originates from. I also don't think it's ever possible to completely know someone, and I like the idea of the marriage as an entity, distinct from the notion that the two individuals have become so entwined as to become 'one'. It's such an interesting subject with so many layers and subtleties. Thank you for your excellent and engaging response as always my friend xx
Secrets. One of my “trigger” subjects!
My parents never spoke of their pasts mostly due to early trauma including (but not only) WW2. All our relatives lived in England when I was a kid - born and growing up in Australia. I felt like a rootless tree, transplanted into somewhere with no links. Thank goodness for cousins and the internet (most of which hooked me into my family after I was about 45yrs old! My Dad just never spoke of it, had loads of anger inside. My Mum made up fantasies, and as a kid I thought they were real. It’s a horrible bubble-burst when your childhood myths are broken. Didnt make for a lot of trust.
My ex (my kids father) simply gaslit and lied, again full of his secrets (mostly women) but as I was a trusting soul, I didnt work this out for 20 odd years!
My current partner is a simple soul. A lovely person, but his secrets are (I think) around his self-loathing. I mean who is going to admit that, eapecially when he doesnt even admit it to himself? He just goes internal. TBH I think he may be undiagnosed autistic - very intelligent and caring but I have realised a lot of his behaviour is copying and masking (as I explore my own ND traits, which are more ADHD).
Sigh.
I hate secrets.
And as a result (and due to ADHD traits) I am a “No shit Sherlock” sort of person. Learning to keep my trap shut a bit more but it’s hard!
Thanks for your thoughtful writing 🙏🏼 🌟 ☺️
Sarah
There is no doubt that secrets can be destructive - both on those in the sphere of the secret holder, or ourselves if we are the ones that hold them. There are just so many layers to this. Malicious secrets, secrets of guilt, secrets of shame, secrets that guard our vulnerabilities. Things we just want to box up and put away. Different generations also have VERY different outlooks on what should and shouldn't be shared. I'm also exploring my ADHD traits at the moment whereas my husband presents very differently to the world. We are complex beings indeed. Thank you for your thoughtful response x
And secrets for things that are just too big and too hard.
One of my Dad’s lovely sisters once said to me (when I stayed with her in UK for a little while and asked about family history). “It’s like a book - some chapters you just never open or read again. You seal them shut.”
Yes…that is a whole other discussion in itself, and one I see played out within older generations of my own family. It sometimes makes me sad (for them) but who is to say what is the right way of dealing with painful memories? 💔
I read “On Chapel Sands” recently and the secrets held by a whole community hidden in plain sight led to a lot of mistrust - and relatives in Australia helped solve some of the mysteries
this sound very interesting - I'll look it up x
We certainly seem less “constrained” - using me and my English cousins as examples 🤣
My parents and my two oldest siblings became homeless when their house took a direct hit during the Clydebank Blitz in 1941. My Dad was serving as a fireman while my mum and siblings were in a shelter. Dad didn’t know where they were for three days, or if they had survived. My mother hardly spoke of it, my father not at all. His eyes would fill with tears if you asked. Having researched the history of those two awful nights, I can understand why.
I wonder now if they spoke to each other?
When she was dying 60 years later, my mum shared with me her worst experience of the Blitz. She said she’d never told anyone that story. I felt oddly privileged. Maybe it was a sense of being trusted at last?
Perhaps that is it - the sense of being trusted. I do know my husband trusts me, but I also think there's possibly something embedded deep in the subconscious psyche that if he withholds things, then maybe he doesn't trust me? Wow, your parents' story. So much emotion, so much unspoken, and then to tell you at the end ❤️
Interesting piece, Emma. Secrets are such a many threaded topic.
I’ve been divorced for sometime. But during my marriage, my husband was an attorney in the same small town where I was a reporter, the courtroom where he argued being one of my beats. We only had a few opportunities to experiment with how it would feel not to be able to share as openly as we were used to before the fact we were heading in very different directions became so loud it was clear we needed to part ways officially.
This was the bigger secret we kept from ourselves and each other for longer than we ought to have—that we were moving in those opposite directions that called us and that our marriage wasn’t going to work.
Thank you Holly for sharing this. It's so interesting - the secrets we don't even admit to ourselves. The ones we suppress while we're busy managing the external. What a fascinating blend of jobs for you to hold as a couple in a small town - and I'm sure many delicate conflicts of interest to manage. Wow x
Emma, this was a valuable exploration. In my marriage, we both have jobs where we maintain confidentiality, and since the start of the pandemic we both work from home. I built a backyard cabin so I could have a private, detached space to work with my clients. My husband has always understood. He was in special forces earlier in life, and he used to be reluctant to even go under anesthesia for a surgery. He will always have experiences in his background he never shares with me. I worked in counseling, so naturally I never share anything involving client confidentiality.
But I had to smile when we has only been married a short time, and he asked me after he got home from the hospital, “Do you ever have temptations?” We had a really great conversation. I asked him if he did. He said no, but then explained a few single women didn’t seem to care that he was married now. So I drove to his work to have lunch with him now and then. We trust each other completely, and we tell each other if there’s someone acting a bit interested.
We had a cute situation arise last winter. I was using some kind of assistive device (I have MS). I had asked the hardware store clerk for help finding something. Then I went to the aisle where my husband was shopping. The clerk, a friendly, nice looking fellow found me and started to ask me out. He then glanced up and saw my husband.
Oh. Are you two together?
My husband took this in stride, and the man said something complementary and looked a bit embarrassed and left.
But we laughed later and celebrated the fact someone felt interested. (You’ve still got it!) My husband and I are both committed but we think maintaining open communication is a safeguard.
I used to do trainings on vicarious trauma and resilience. It’s important to recognize the signs of compassion fatigue and do self care to counteract this. Thanks for bringing up this key area in marriage.
I appreciate the things my husband and I still share and connect on. For him, music and art provide balance and feed his soul. He respects my need to write and my love for photography and art.
Oh how interesting, and what great perspective you both come from. 'Vicarious trauma' - that and 'compassion fatigue' really stand out for me. Both things I can relate to from his perspective and mine. It's such a multi-layered discussion. Like you, we have a high level of trust in our marriage with respect to the usual kind of 'secrets' and each of us would also be flattered by attention and share that with the other! My husband also turns to music - both listening to it and playing the guitar. I, like you, turn to writing... Thank you so much for this insightful and fascinating response x
I love it that your husband has his guitar and you have writing.
I enjoyed reading your response, Emma. Sometimes I think men or women who have unique wiring see the world in a different way than average. These people may be able to do work that others would find too difficult. And their way of processing or viewing emotions and relationships may be fairly unusual, too. I think that factors in at times. But it doesn’t mean they wouldn’t struggle with vicarious trauma.
Oh wow I think I’d be like you, desperate to have him share but also not entirely sure why, is it to support or something else. It’s great that he has people to share with though. I am also curious (nosey) & my husband isn’t so he naturally doesn’t tell me stuff
That's exactly it. I am also very curious (nosey) and equally my husband isn't. He doesn't really get the whole gossip thing - I love a good gossip 🤣. On the serious side though, I am glad he has people to talk to, but I think an awful lot is still held within which is a slight concern. I will hold that in different ways, keeping an eye if I think something has had a significant impact, nudging him to seek support. Encouraging him to tell others and accepting it won't be me hearing it...
This post has been popping into my head quite regularly since reading it a few days ago. It's been interesting reflecting on the differences between me and my husband that I already knew about, I like to talk, he doesn't. But it's also prompted me to think a bit more deeply about whether I share as much as I think I do, and the answer is that I don't. I have what feels like a constant script running in my head so sometimes I think I've shared something, but I haven't. I've thought about it internally, and written about it but have I shared it with my husband, probably not. It also reminded me of the family secrets my mother in law divulged after a couple of gin and tonics one night about half siblings and what sounded like a whole new part of the family in Canada as well as stuff from her childhood that even her husband of 50+ years was surprised to hear. Great post, really thought provoking on lots of levels.
Thanks so much - and YES to the constant internal script. My husband says I often haven't told him things which I think I have. I've clearly just had that conversation in my head.. so he is left in a space of 'not knowing' although not because I've kept a secret?! We too are so different. I'm a talker, he's more of a slow burn. I love that G&T conversation - a similar one did happen in my family after my brother died but I gotta say, I learned some things I really didn't want to know... x
Great piece, Emma. So thought provoking.
Thank you - so many strands!!!
In my work with couples I make a distinction between privacy and secrecy. Couples need to come to some understanding and agreements around what they need shared for trust and commitment to flourish. And couples need to share enough of their inner worlds with each other to be known and feel known. Secrecy is often intentional hiding of information to avoid conflict, and privacy is choosing what to share - and that changes over time. Secrets can be toxic to trust - privacy is respecting the trust and nourishing its growth.
Thank you, this is a really helpful distinction. I can certainly reframe my own situation in the sense of respecting my husband’s privacy and what he chooses to share 🫶
I’d be the same as you wanting to know, but unlike you, wouldn’t handle the knowing.
This is such an interesting topic!
I know a secret I hold with my husband is my previous sexual partners, he knows perhaps a little, but I also haven’t asked much about his.
I sometimes find his poor description of events he’s attended or his work day or just general life frustrating as I want to know every detail so I can imagine being there. But that just makes me look crazy 🤪 It’s more a joy of knowing his life than stalker… I promise (I note it to discuss with my therapist in our next session, just to be sure 🤣). But then sometimes he can be spilling the tea on work drama and being outside of the workplace can’t see the goss and he gets frustrated 😆
Aah the old 'sexual partners' chestnut. We were literally having that conversation with our teenage children the other day!! Not telling them anything about us but about how it can be such a contentious question between new couples! I love how you want to know every detail - I kind of glaze over at the detail and want the highlights, but I want ALL the highlights. I think we are wired for wanting the gossip....I know I am! xx
I want all the tea ☕️ the gossip and the liquid kind 😆
It’s so interesting and the thing really is there is no right or wrong. I would love to know more from your husbands perspective. I lean towards oversharing and verbal diarrhoea (is that how you spell that? My autocorrect says it is but I have doubts), so this keeping trauma stories in interesting. 🧐
Absolutely there is no right or wrong (and your spelling looks good to me!!). It's made me think that I'll ask him for more of his view on this, and maybe write a follow up...
I’ll be here waiting with an open mind and curiosity ☺️💚
You might be waiting a while 🤣
😂😂 I’ll have a brew (or a few) then ☕️
So now I’ve read the responses mine seems so silly 🙈 Workplace drama versus war trauma or the trauma of your husband’s job.
We thankfully don’t have that level of soul hurting experiences to be sharing.
I wonder, where should the consent be? With the sharer or the hearer? It’s good there are boundaries that he’s not trauma dumping on you, there is so much love in protecting you from the horrors. But you’re trained in it and have said you want to know, which then makes it a thing.
But then equally from the traumatised person’s perspective, perhaps they don’t want to relive it and by sharing it could bring that horror home? That they may look at you and see the sadness?
I’d love to know more, I’d love to hear from more people who are the secret holder and their reasonings behind it… 💚
Not silly at all - I found your comment super interesting. And secrets are certainly not reserved for the 'trauma' issues. Often it's the small secrets that can cause the biggest damage - you can feel just as 'left out' whether the subject matter is the day to day or a really significant single event. You raise some great questions - where should the consent be - I think that's what I struggle with a bit. 'I'll tell you when it's too much - let me make that choice'. Your penultimate point is one that will definitely stay with me - perhaps they don't want to relive it or see other's sadness. Very wise words. And as for the secret holders...will we ever know?? xx