I have about seven internal dialogues at any given moment!! And ridiculously detailed visuals too - but names? Forget it! I can know you for twenty years, see you regularly and STILL draw a blank!! It’s HUGELY frustrating! Great post Em ..ily? 😝
Multiple dialogues - I LOVE this!!! And you have the visuals - just like my daughter. Isn't is so interesting though - I think I can't do names because I can't do faces!! There is absolutely a missing link (although I may be the missing link?!?!?!) x
More of life needs to come with name badges. Someone needs to invent something like a social media banner that follows people everywhere in real life and says their name, with a subheading summarising who they are so you can work out how you know them.
Hi Emma, such a fascinating topic this, and weirdly I had a discussion about this only last week with my 19yo daughter who had realised she can’t visualise things much at all. I couldn’t comprehend how she couldn’t see things in her mind immediately! I think she’s like you in that she can grasp a few visuals but they aren’t very strong and it’s not natural for her at all. Meanwhile with any word she mentioned I could imagine not just an image but also the context, maybe a narrative, or memory, perhaps another context, I can’t stop it all coming into my mind like a movie, or 5 movies all at once.
I also have an strong internal narrative, (often from a variety of voices or viewpoints) although I’ve realised that actually it’s not always a narrative composed of words. Lots of the time it is just the feelings and emotions, like I bypass the language and go straight to an interpretation of what the narrative means.
What??? I have now idea what I do if I wasn't merrily chatting to myself all day, it does start to come out loud sometimes now though. Even though I learnt to teach meditation, I don't have the best visual experiences. When I do journeying, it tends to be multisensory as though its coming from within me, that's the only way I can describe it. It's all fascinating stuff.
I remember the first time I realised some people didn't have constant talk going on in their head and it blew my mind. I always thought that when someone said they were thinking about "nothing" they meant nothing important, nothing worth mentioning. But no, they mean *literally nothing*! It must be so quiet in their heads.
I also find it so fascinating how some people can be deeply visual in their thinking and other people not at all. I wrote a post a while ago about how I got obsessed with how people dream. For me it's a full colour movie with sound, but I've spoken to loads of people over time and some dream without sound, some dream in black and white, some dream without any visuals at all... then I asked my mum which she was and she said "I don't know". How can you not know?! Our brains are incredible!
I also have a very low level of prosopagnosia and it makes me so anxious in social contexts in case I meet people in supposed to recognise but don't. I'm really bad when I see people out of context. I've had ongoing "friendships" with people who walked up to me and shouted "Allegra, hi!" and I didn't recognise them at all and never found out where I knew them from. I'm OK once I've met someone a few times, but I'm always scared about the second or third meeting in case I don't recognise them. I look them up on social media to check their photo. My husband and I met online and for the first few dates I checked all his profile photos a bunch of times before we due to meet to make sure I'd recognise him! I'm a highly visual person - I can visualise things really clearly - but I struggle to visualise faces. I have to call up a memory or think about a photo I've seen, because that will be clear in my visual memory.
I also wrote a post a while back about my synaesthesia - words have colours in my brain. Sorry this turned into a long comment but I just love all of this stuff, our brains are so fascinating!! And it's interesting that, with the same physiological structure, we can all operate so differently!
The whole dreaming thing is so interesting as well. I was going to write about that but I would never have finished the post 🤣. I dream in full colour with clarity, but I don't think there's any sound. I'm not sure I realised that until just now. There's a house I visit regularly in my dream and I know it so well (although it's not a house I've ever know 'irl'). I also get what your mum means in a way - it's like Charlene in the above comment asking me how I recall memories. I'm not really sure how, but I can!! I call up photos in my mind a lot because they are definitely easier for me to visualise - might explain why I take so many pictures! I'd love to see your post on synaesthesia - will try and find it. Love chatting about this!! x
I could talk about this for hours!! The synaesthesia one was a guest post for @KathrynVercillo. I'll try to find the link. The dreaming one was on my Substack.
Oh yes, I have a constant monologue too! Though I’m also visual so can picture faces in my mind. It’s often very busy in my head!
There is a line in a Macy Gray ‘I Try’ song that goes ‘my world crumbles when you are not near’ though I heard my ex singing along ‘I walk on hot coals when you are not here.’ It makes me chuckle every time I hear that song!🤭
haha love that, and yes I can hear that lyric as you write it! Another one was La Isla Bonita by Madonna. There's a line 'young girl with eyes like the desert', and a DJ once said that to him it was 'young girls with eyes like potatoes'. Now it's potatoes every time 🤣
I loved this post. I definitely have internal monologues. At least I listen to myself. I also visual things in my head. Like my calm place in Greece where I kick my internal monologue down the hill into the sea for peace. Thank you Emma xxx
This is absolutely fascinating!! I am a very visual person and always get frustrated when people start explaining things to me verbally, especially if there are figures and logic involved. I need it repeated so many times, and preferably a drawing to go with it and/or text to follow along. I had no idea there was even a thing as not being able to imagine a fully developed horse or whatever else. Wow, wow, wow. That said, I’ll get strokes of inspiration, snippets of dialogue for my novel, a description here and there…but no inner monologue. I so enjoyed this. Thank you for enlightening all of us! And for the laughs, because you are also quite funny 😆😊
It's exactly that - the fact that you didn't know that not being able to imagine a fully developed horse was a thing!! Like me not knowing that other people don't have the inner monologue - it's mind blowing!! There's also tests you can do online to see which way you process information - whether you are a visual, audio or kinaesthetic learner. I did one yesterday and I am definitely kinaesthetic - I need to 'do' the task to learn it, not just be told about it or see it. So interesting! Thank you for your lovely comment xx
Yeah.... and yes to so much of this! I, too, was shocked when I first realized some people don't always hear everything in their head all the time. I've watched some fascinating conversations with those people. (You have a first-hand source!) I can't even begin to understand that blankness. (I wouldn't want the blankness.)
The lack of visualization is a big one though. As someone who draws, I feel SO left out that I can't visualize! But it really took me forever to understand that some people can...
It's always interesting when we discover things like this.... it often "explains so much," right? You did a really good job explaining the visualization problem, by the way! Your blue blob and "what my kids look like" examples are great. (I've always felt like this has a lot to do with how I do or don't remember. Just a guess.)
No I wouldn't want the blankness, but sometimes I would like a bit less noise 🤣 and yes - I am also very creative, but isn't it weird we can't visualise? Sometimes I try and imagine I'm looking at a photo of the person rather than the actual person. Also weirdly when I dream I really do have clarity. And as for how I remember... well my memory is shocking...
also the drawing thing is really interesting. If I had to draw lakes and mountains from memory I could do that in a lot of detail (not well because I'm not an artist!), because although I can't 'see' itI still have all the knowledge of how it looks somehow?!!??!
Very interesting. I have learned (and accepted) that I need a reference for most things simply because I can't "visualize" how a person's head changes when they tilt that way, for example, or where the arms actually end up, or where the wings on a plane really are or what angle they sit at. Always frustrating. Luckily, references exist! Again - great post. And thanks for the replies.
This is so fascinating, Emma. We all process information differently - who knew? (And my cheeks still burn when I think of how I said Yosemite -Yousemight- in a travel features meeting once. Everyone looked at me blankly so I repeated myself. Cringe.)
Isn't it so fascinating Suzy!! I could have spent all day looking at this (well I pretty much did). I TOTALLY get Yousemight. That is like my epitome. When I worked in travel way back, I remember someone asking me to book them a flight to a place called 'Des Moines' in Iowa. I was absolutely ripped by my travel colleagues for pronouncing it with a French accent 'day mwan'. Apparently it is actually literally des moines. Who knew?!?!
Ha! My grandparents had a poster of Yosemite in their downstairs loo and I always read it as Yousemight too. Blew my mind decades later when I realised how it was meant to be pronounced.
Ok wow! This is all just mind blowing to me. At the onset of your story, I started chuckling at your pronunciation of epitome (rhyming with “home.” For the longest time when I was in my 20’s I would say supposably rather than supposedly. Nobody ever corrected me so I kept on with supposably.
Inner dialogue. Holy heck do I ever. It’s all I can do to get myself to quiet the chatter. I drive myself nuts so I am at a loss that there are those who have none, but I am interested in reading the links at the bottom of your story to get a better understanding of what and how we speak to ourselves. Sometimes the negative chatter can get the better of me (old habits die hard).
Now as for visualizing, this is where I find hope and joy for dreams and aspirations and moments in time when remembering experiences (good or bad). I can picture scenarios and situations with absolute clarity. For example: I am sitting at the shore of a lake with my dog, a view of a field of lavender to my right, with snow capped mountains in the background on a beautiful sunny day.
I’m still trying to understand how you recall memories or situations in your mind’s eye?
haha yes supposably!! Makes me think of Joey in Friends.... but as to your question.... OMG I am also still trying to understand it!!! It's so hard to describe. I can't 'see' memories in the sense of being able to have a clear visual picture, but I can see them in that I know what is there. If I try and focus on a picture, it slips away and isn't there. So whilst I can't see myself sitting at the shore of a lake with my dog, I can have a sense of knowing that I am at the shore of a lake with my dog in my mind. It's the feelings around it. And I have flashes of the visual, they are just sketchy and don't last. Also I feel very reassured that you have an inner monologue (and dialogue). Isn't it all mind blowing though!??!? xx
Emma -- I discovered this post on Amy Cowen's page (Illustrated Life) and having read about Taz and Fiver, I can't shake the feeling that you and I have crossed paths somewhere in the past. I can see those names in my mind's eye! LOL! I am phantastic, according to the test, which comes off as a bit more egocentric than I'd like. 😅
The running monologue is present but a little quieter than yours. Or maybe it's less monologue than white noise.
Despite my ability to visualize, I feel that I have a harder time extending it to things that aren't based in reality. I feel less sure of my ability to picture myself scoring a point, or acing an interview. So, I guess that means I'm phantastically unsure?
So I’ve recently only just read about the fact that some people can’t visualise things (like you) here on Substack.
I’m on the other end and have a very visual mind. I did the quiz you linked and it described the benefits but also drawbacks I’d not associated with it. Sometimes it’s hard for me to decipher between dreams and reality!
But, my visual memory doesn’t extend to words which I blame on dyslexia. For example, 20 years later I can still remember my gcse study book. Its layout, the colours and some of the pictures. But none of the words, not one!
I remember my best friend realising that not everyone sees numbers in colours! You can ask her ‘what colour is 7’ and it has a colour, very cool.
I didn’t know about face blindness and I think I struggle with this, despite my visual memory! When I dream, I don’t dream with faces. When I imagine people, I struggle to see their face. I could perhaps see glasses or a beard but I can’t see their face. I also struggle with recognising people, sometimes both ways. Sometimes someone I know but can’t place, sometimes due to lack of context or just they have their hair different or something. Or, I can have days where I feel like I recognise everyone but just can’t possibly. Those days feel overwhelming.
Re the inner dialog, me too! I was doing meditation in a yoga class the other day and the task was to focus on a certain body part. My brain was doing all silly voices ‘tummy, tummy, focus on your tummmmmmmmmmmyyyyyyyy’. It can narrate what I’m doing or what I see or it’s a constant monologue of thoughts. I can also have music tracks, sometimes more than one playing at once. It’s a loud place to be and I envy those who have NOTHING! What is that like???????
I have about seven internal dialogues at any given moment!! And ridiculously detailed visuals too - but names? Forget it! I can know you for twenty years, see you regularly and STILL draw a blank!! It’s HUGELY frustrating! Great post Em ..ily? 😝
Multiple dialogues - I LOVE this!!! And you have the visuals - just like my daughter. Isn't is so interesting though - I think I can't do names because I can't do faces!! There is absolutely a missing link (although I may be the missing link?!?!?!) x
More of life needs to come with name badges. Someone needs to invent something like a social media banner that follows people everywhere in real life and says their name, with a subheading summarising who they are so you can work out how you know them.
YES!!! If someone is wearing a lanyard I am always trying to get sight of the name!!! I would love it if life came with name badges 🤣 brilliant!!
Hi Emma, such a fascinating topic this, and weirdly I had a discussion about this only last week with my 19yo daughter who had realised she can’t visualise things much at all. I couldn’t comprehend how she couldn’t see things in her mind immediately! I think she’s like you in that she can grasp a few visuals but they aren’t very strong and it’s not natural for her at all. Meanwhile with any word she mentioned I could imagine not just an image but also the context, maybe a narrative, or memory, perhaps another context, I can’t stop it all coming into my mind like a movie, or 5 movies all at once.
I also have an strong internal narrative, (often from a variety of voices or viewpoints) although I’ve realised that actually it’s not always a narrative composed of words. Lots of the time it is just the feelings and emotions, like I bypass the language and go straight to an interpretation of what the narrative means.
I came across your article in my fyp. I giggled as I read this. I am an imager. My husband is not. It makes for really interesting conversations!
haha thanks so much! So interesting isn't it?
What??? I have now idea what I do if I wasn't merrily chatting to myself all day, it does start to come out loud sometimes now though. Even though I learnt to teach meditation, I don't have the best visual experiences. When I do journeying, it tends to be multisensory as though its coming from within me, that's the only way I can describe it. It's all fascinating stuff.
I remember the first time I realised some people didn't have constant talk going on in their head and it blew my mind. I always thought that when someone said they were thinking about "nothing" they meant nothing important, nothing worth mentioning. But no, they mean *literally nothing*! It must be so quiet in their heads.
I also find it so fascinating how some people can be deeply visual in their thinking and other people not at all. I wrote a post a while ago about how I got obsessed with how people dream. For me it's a full colour movie with sound, but I've spoken to loads of people over time and some dream without sound, some dream in black and white, some dream without any visuals at all... then I asked my mum which she was and she said "I don't know". How can you not know?! Our brains are incredible!
I also have a very low level of prosopagnosia and it makes me so anxious in social contexts in case I meet people in supposed to recognise but don't. I'm really bad when I see people out of context. I've had ongoing "friendships" with people who walked up to me and shouted "Allegra, hi!" and I didn't recognise them at all and never found out where I knew them from. I'm OK once I've met someone a few times, but I'm always scared about the second or third meeting in case I don't recognise them. I look them up on social media to check their photo. My husband and I met online and for the first few dates I checked all his profile photos a bunch of times before we due to meet to make sure I'd recognise him! I'm a highly visual person - I can visualise things really clearly - but I struggle to visualise faces. I have to call up a memory or think about a photo I've seen, because that will be clear in my visual memory.
I also wrote a post a while back about my synaesthesia - words have colours in my brain. Sorry this turned into a long comment but I just love all of this stuff, our brains are so fascinating!! And it's interesting that, with the same physiological structure, we can all operate so differently!
The whole dreaming thing is so interesting as well. I was going to write about that but I would never have finished the post 🤣. I dream in full colour with clarity, but I don't think there's any sound. I'm not sure I realised that until just now. There's a house I visit regularly in my dream and I know it so well (although it's not a house I've ever know 'irl'). I also get what your mum means in a way - it's like Charlene in the above comment asking me how I recall memories. I'm not really sure how, but I can!! I call up photos in my mind a lot because they are definitely easier for me to visualise - might explain why I take so many pictures! I'd love to see your post on synaesthesia - will try and find it. Love chatting about this!! x
I could talk about this for hours!! The synaesthesia one was a guest post for @KathrynVercillo. I'll try to find the link. The dreaming one was on my Substack.
Oh yes, I have a constant monologue too! Though I’m also visual so can picture faces in my mind. It’s often very busy in my head!
There is a line in a Macy Gray ‘I Try’ song that goes ‘my world crumbles when you are not near’ though I heard my ex singing along ‘I walk on hot coals when you are not here.’ It makes me chuckle every time I hear that song!🤭
haha love that, and yes I can hear that lyric as you write it! Another one was La Isla Bonita by Madonna. There's a line 'young girl with eyes like the desert', and a DJ once said that to him it was 'young girls with eyes like potatoes'. Now it's potatoes every time 🤣
🤣 much better and more likely! 🥔🥔Don’t get me started thinking of these… 😅
you'll never be able to hear it in the same way again...🤣
Another song ruined! 😅
I loved this post. I definitely have internal monologues. At least I listen to myself. I also visual things in my head. Like my calm place in Greece where I kick my internal monologue down the hill into the sea for peace. Thank you Emma xxx
Oh I love that you can kick your monologue into the sea! What fun!! I am trying to visualise your calm place...I think I can kinda feel it...
This is absolutely fascinating!! I am a very visual person and always get frustrated when people start explaining things to me verbally, especially if there are figures and logic involved. I need it repeated so many times, and preferably a drawing to go with it and/or text to follow along. I had no idea there was even a thing as not being able to imagine a fully developed horse or whatever else. Wow, wow, wow. That said, I’ll get strokes of inspiration, snippets of dialogue for my novel, a description here and there…but no inner monologue. I so enjoyed this. Thank you for enlightening all of us! And for the laughs, because you are also quite funny 😆😊
It's exactly that - the fact that you didn't know that not being able to imagine a fully developed horse was a thing!! Like me not knowing that other people don't have the inner monologue - it's mind blowing!! There's also tests you can do online to see which way you process information - whether you are a visual, audio or kinaesthetic learner. I did one yesterday and I am definitely kinaesthetic - I need to 'do' the task to learn it, not just be told about it or see it. So interesting! Thank you for your lovely comment xx
Yeah.... and yes to so much of this! I, too, was shocked when I first realized some people don't always hear everything in their head all the time. I've watched some fascinating conversations with those people. (You have a first-hand source!) I can't even begin to understand that blankness. (I wouldn't want the blankness.)
The lack of visualization is a big one though. As someone who draws, I feel SO left out that I can't visualize! But it really took me forever to understand that some people can...
It's always interesting when we discover things like this.... it often "explains so much," right? You did a really good job explaining the visualization problem, by the way! Your blue blob and "what my kids look like" examples are great. (I've always felt like this has a lot to do with how I do or don't remember. Just a guess.)
No I wouldn't want the blankness, but sometimes I would like a bit less noise 🤣 and yes - I am also very creative, but isn't it weird we can't visualise? Sometimes I try and imagine I'm looking at a photo of the person rather than the actual person. Also weirdly when I dream I really do have clarity. And as for how I remember... well my memory is shocking...
also the drawing thing is really interesting. If I had to draw lakes and mountains from memory I could do that in a lot of detail (not well because I'm not an artist!), because although I can't 'see' itI still have all the knowledge of how it looks somehow?!!??!
Very interesting. I have learned (and accepted) that I need a reference for most things simply because I can't "visualize" how a person's head changes when they tilt that way, for example, or where the arms actually end up, or where the wings on a plane really are or what angle they sit at. Always frustrating. Luckily, references exist! Again - great post. And thanks for the replies.
By the way Evelyn Skye posted on this topic recently, too, and thinking of it in terms of how one writes.... you might find it interesting: https://open.substack.com/pub/evelynskye/p/visual-vs-word-based-storytelling-aphantasia?r=2355f3&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
This is so fascinating, Emma. We all process information differently - who knew? (And my cheeks still burn when I think of how I said Yosemite -Yousemight- in a travel features meeting once. Everyone looked at me blankly so I repeated myself. Cringe.)
Isn't it so fascinating Suzy!! I could have spent all day looking at this (well I pretty much did). I TOTALLY get Yousemight. That is like my epitome. When I worked in travel way back, I remember someone asking me to book them a flight to a place called 'Des Moines' in Iowa. I was absolutely ripped by my travel colleagues for pronouncing it with a French accent 'day mwan'. Apparently it is actually literally des moines. Who knew?!?!
Ha! My grandparents had a poster of Yosemite in their downstairs loo and I always read it as Yousemight too. Blew my mind decades later when I realised how it was meant to be pronounced.
hahahaha. Not just me!
🤣
Ok wow! This is all just mind blowing to me. At the onset of your story, I started chuckling at your pronunciation of epitome (rhyming with “home.” For the longest time when I was in my 20’s I would say supposably rather than supposedly. Nobody ever corrected me so I kept on with supposably.
Inner dialogue. Holy heck do I ever. It’s all I can do to get myself to quiet the chatter. I drive myself nuts so I am at a loss that there are those who have none, but I am interested in reading the links at the bottom of your story to get a better understanding of what and how we speak to ourselves. Sometimes the negative chatter can get the better of me (old habits die hard).
Now as for visualizing, this is where I find hope and joy for dreams and aspirations and moments in time when remembering experiences (good or bad). I can picture scenarios and situations with absolute clarity. For example: I am sitting at the shore of a lake with my dog, a view of a field of lavender to my right, with snow capped mountains in the background on a beautiful sunny day.
I’m still trying to understand how you recall memories or situations in your mind’s eye?
haha yes supposably!! Makes me think of Joey in Friends.... but as to your question.... OMG I am also still trying to understand it!!! It's so hard to describe. I can't 'see' memories in the sense of being able to have a clear visual picture, but I can see them in that I know what is there. If I try and focus on a picture, it slips away and isn't there. So whilst I can't see myself sitting at the shore of a lake with my dog, I can have a sense of knowing that I am at the shore of a lake with my dog in my mind. It's the feelings around it. And I have flashes of the visual, they are just sketchy and don't last. Also I feel very reassured that you have an inner monologue (and dialogue). Isn't it all mind blowing though!??!? xx
Emma -- I discovered this post on Amy Cowen's page (Illustrated Life) and having read about Taz and Fiver, I can't shake the feeling that you and I have crossed paths somewhere in the past. I can see those names in my mind's eye! LOL! I am phantastic, according to the test, which comes off as a bit more egocentric than I'd like. 😅
The running monologue is present but a little quieter than yours. Or maybe it's less monologue than white noise.
Despite my ability to visualize, I feel that I have a harder time extending it to things that aren't based in reality. I feel less sure of my ability to picture myself scoring a point, or acing an interview. So, I guess that means I'm phantastically unsure?
Enjoyed this exploration!
I loved this!
So I’ve recently only just read about the fact that some people can’t visualise things (like you) here on Substack.
I’m on the other end and have a very visual mind. I did the quiz you linked and it described the benefits but also drawbacks I’d not associated with it. Sometimes it’s hard for me to decipher between dreams and reality!
But, my visual memory doesn’t extend to words which I blame on dyslexia. For example, 20 years later I can still remember my gcse study book. Its layout, the colours and some of the pictures. But none of the words, not one!
I remember my best friend realising that not everyone sees numbers in colours! You can ask her ‘what colour is 7’ and it has a colour, very cool.
I didn’t know about face blindness and I think I struggle with this, despite my visual memory! When I dream, I don’t dream with faces. When I imagine people, I struggle to see their face. I could perhaps see glasses or a beard but I can’t see their face. I also struggle with recognising people, sometimes both ways. Sometimes someone I know but can’t place, sometimes due to lack of context or just they have their hair different or something. Or, I can have days where I feel like I recognise everyone but just can’t possibly. Those days feel overwhelming.
Re the inner dialog, me too! I was doing meditation in a yoga class the other day and the task was to focus on a certain body part. My brain was doing all silly voices ‘tummy, tummy, focus on your tummmmmmmmmmmyyyyyyyy’. It can narrate what I’m doing or what I see or it’s a constant monologue of thoughts. I can also have music tracks, sometimes more than one playing at once. It’s a loud place to be and I envy those who have NOTHING! What is that like???????